Author Topic: Thierrys fig cuttings  (Read 516 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The wasp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Welcome !!
Thierrys fig cuttings
« on: December 05, 2019, 09:54:37 PM »
I was scanning thru on figbid. Look at the figs. I noticed how much FDM4USA charges for fig cuttings. Thats flat out robbery.  Then just out of curiosity  i messaged  Thierry and asked him prices.  He stated  3 cuttings for 25 euros.  25 euros comes out to be $27.77 usd.  One listing said 3 Campaniere cuttings for $90.  Thats thats $63 profit.  I think i remember them saying they will sell for a fair price.   Nothing but a rip off.

Offline LaFigGwr2019

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1384
  • Karma: +20/-3
  • Food Forest or at least Food Orchard
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2019, 10:30:09 PM »
Great job at doing some research before buying.  Also thank you for sharing. 
WL:  LSU(Red Extraordinaire & Tiger), Roberts Golden Rainbow, Buzzone Nero, UCR 187-25, Dall Oso, Cravens C., Thermalito, any CdD

Other WL:  Banana(Manzano, Ice Cream, Dwarf(4 variety), Red)

South Louisiana, 9a

Online Rudy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Welcome !!
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2019, 06:00:32 AM »
Oh, did you ask about the cost of shipping? I asked FigsArtByNikky what the prices for the cuttings/trees were out of curiosity.  Prices were over $80 per cutting and cost of shipping was almost the same as the price of cuttings.  For some reason $70 sticks in my mind.  I deleted the information immediately just in case Big Brother was monitoring.  What a rip off!!
WL: heirloom varieties, Astoria Green, Louisiana Lightening, Black Bethlehem, LSU Red, LSU Thibodeaux, Super Red Hybrid, White Adriatic,Yellow Long Neck, BB 10, Cavaliere, Cendrosa, Ciliegia Dolce, Colonel Littman, Kesarsini, Strawberry Verte, Smith, Socorro Black, White Maderia #1

Online Swamplife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2019, 07:22:08 AM »
That is just crazy.
Wish List: Louisiana Lightening, Smith Fig, Dall' OSSO Fig, Socorro Black, BB-10,LSU Gold, LSU Thibodaux, LSU Jack Lily, LSU O'Rourke, UCR 184-15,Colonel Litman's Black Cross, Orphan fig, Adriatic JH

Offline LouisianaMojo

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Karma: +129/-17
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 07:49:37 AM »
I have a few questions about all this.

1 why would we be considering buying these when they're illegal to have shipped into the US.

2 these varieties are not going to grow the same here in the US you are buying a photo please go to my white Madeira number one and lick the screen.

We cannot stress this enough illegal figs coming inside the US and  new found figs that come from California have not been tested to see if they're common figs.

3 I still see some of these varieties in member's wish list which reflex to me that you're considering it why would you want a variety that hasn't been tested and the facts are unknown ?

4 best solution is just don't buy it.

Everybody had a big run on the lorusso varieties they thought they were going to make it lots of money. As of today doing the research on these 98% show that they are not a common fig and comments on his varieties on the internet prove this.

So everyone that invested in these have lost or are losing their money. You would think that they would learn the first time!

So we see this being no different if you don't buy they will lose their investment money and stop.

If the United States agriculture Department doesn't bust them first is this really worth the money.

Offline LouisianaMojo

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Karma: +129/-17
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 09:47:14 AM »
I feel I need to put a little more input into this discussion and let some facts be known. The Larusso varieties I guess now are over a hundred and fifty different varieties supposedly and I know I love you people that have invested quite a bit of money into these.

The facts are with this little lady going over and visiting the supplier and posting photos of this on Facebook sent up a big red flag with us.

The red flag was the Fig Orchards they were production Orchards holding production figs that are either male or figs needing pollination to fruit. This is quite coming over there and turkey and other areas that grow production figs they are not common.

The other big red flag what's the size of these figs showing that they have been pollinated and would be dried down for shipment which is how they process production figs.

The end results are a lot of people invested money and a lot of people are not going to be eating figs off these varieties unless you have the results.

The lady which was a good friend of mine that was promoting the sales and having cuttings imported here and S E L L I N G them for high prices is now inactive. I do know that she has been ridiculed and bashed and has pretty much ruined her reputation really really sad and over a dollar bill lost the real meaning for. the love of figs.

We do not see her on eBay or fig bid or anywhere and what of the person that started all this ? He has done nothing but collect his money and do you know what the exchange rate is for currency over there made a big h a u l.

In conclusion of this we see several other ones outside US that are doing the same thing that members have mentioned. And we look to see and find the same results.

We also see new found rare fig varieties out of California. Some make statements that they don't know whether it is a common fig or not.. but it sure is not stopping them from promoting and selling them ! ! 

So in the Larusso case a fig collector was left holding the bag and was really ridiculed and Bash for her involvement. And we see history repeating itself again.

Offline The wasp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Welcome !!
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 12:29:32 PM »
The reason i did the research is i want people to see they getting ripped off by 2 crooks one has been kick off every forum except 1.  Maybe if they see the cost they will stop paying it. If put this on ourfigs they delete it fast.

Online FigHearted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2019, 01:11:58 PM »
I'm too new to this forum to know of the full history of this.  Honestly, I don't even know of which varieties  are the lorusso ones except for the three I see on the database.  That's the thing when you are new to collecting.  You just do not know all the history, so you read forums like this one and hope to learn.

For me, I don't want to waste time on those that are not common.  I don't live near a wasp (or vice versa), so what is the point.

I do know that I need to be very, very cautious of those on figbid that say things like "new discovery!" or "amazing new find."  For one thing, I don't have money to be buying them, but the biggest thing is that generally speaking, the seller knows nothing of the fig (or discloses very little of what they do know) and are just hyping it up to sell.  Just because someone found a fig tree in someone's back yard that is 30 years old doesn't make it a super find.  It could easily be a Black Mission or some other common variety in that area.

The other thing that gets me about some sellers is that on the pictures they post in the forums or in their latest videos, you can very clearly see some unhealthy looking trees (even those being offered for purchase).  I'm not just talking those lacking water or with FMV, but those whose leaves are all covered in rust spots.  I do not want to put their cuttings anywhere near my newly struck cuttings or trees. 

Rust on fig leaves can encourage premature ripening of the fruit.  Once you find rust on figs, treatment is difficult as there are very few fungicides that are registered for use on figs. Rust seems to respond best to fungicides containing copper sulfate and lime. Bare trees need to be sprayed during the dormant season followed by repeated treatments every two to three weeks. By the time you detect rust on figs, treatment is usually unsuccessful for the current season, but beginning a spray regimen can help prevent recurrence.

So knowing that, why are some of these people selling their clearly infected cuttings?  Greed.  I don't for a minute believe that they do not know their plants are not fully healthy.  You grow trees for cuttings, you know something is wrong when you see the spots.  If you don't, you should not be growing them to sell in the first place because you do not know enough about them to be helping the fig improve its genetics.
WL: Maltese Beauty, Dalmatie, Texas Peach, Buzzone Nero, EXP24, JDs LSU Red, JDs Giant Brown Turkey,LSU Purple, Bass' Favorite, Burgan UNK,CLBC, BNR,  Socorro, Del Monte,Raspberry Tart, Watermelon, BM KK, Edith Lamb, Thermalito, Hative D'Argenteuil, Martinenca Rimada, Paratjal Rimada, Golden Rainbow

Offline figWillie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: +9/-1
  • Welcome !!
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2019, 02:30:36 PM »
I'm relatively new to figs and internet forums, but I am 60 years old and have seen a lifetime of scams!

What they are doing is illegal, no doubt. I tried to bring this out in a post on ourfigs and Kelby the moderator cut off my post once nycfigs (the owner of figbid) got their approval of the venture in the comments. Kelby said in a PM that my post was fine and I did nothing wrong, but cut it off anyway. Very convenient. Here's the link:

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/654984-in-reference-to-this-post-introducing-figues-du-monde-usa

I had a private message session with both parties, Mike Kessler, the1figman and William Driscoll, aka egretsbill, and came to the personal conclusion that this business venture isn't legal.

First off, they claim Thierry has been selling thousands of cuttings to America over the years. But now he is going to stop selling them so these guys can be the exclusive sellers? Why on earth would he do that unless they are profiting more than before? 
The story simply makes no sense from any angle. In the video Thierry is asked why he is doing this and he says it's to increase his business, so that contradicts what these guys are claiming. How can his business increase if he stops selling them directly? Bill says they will be introducing new varieties in the future. Clearly a nod to importing new stock, not previously existing trees already here. And they won't tell us the location of these pre-existing orchards or how old the trees in question are!

Now, the1figman says to me he just made the video and has nothing to do with the venture, and the purpose was just to bring traffic to his website. So, I'll take his word on that one.
 
So is this between Bill Driscoll and Thierry only? Bill told me in a PM that ourfigs was in on it too, which would explain why the moderator cut off my post once the venture was approved by figbid, who is also benefiting from these sales.

Call it a black market, a gray market, or whatever you like. But are any of these people claiming these fig sales on their income taxes? I'd like to see some business licenses, a letter from the USDA saying this is legal, ANYTHING AT ALL! But, so far they can provide us with nothing but sales talk. They won't even tell us where these secret fig trees reside. Is it normal for a nursery to hide its stock, or be secretive about how it got here? Who owns the trees they claim to be sourcing and where in America are they?

In the end I'm not really sure who is even in on this venture. But it's obviously not legal. And having said that, after paying his extorted fees, will you be getting what you think you are by buying? I guess you might know in a few years when DNA testing becomes practical.

Thank you JD and Steve for this wonderful forum of giving, and bringing some fig scams to light. All I wanted was to buy some fig trees that I can't get from the local nurseries, not get involved in any black market scams. It shouldn't be this difficult.
Now I'm not even confident in using figbid anymore.
Want list: #1-Qalaat al Madiq #2- black Zadar, #3 LSU Red, #4 Ben's Golden Riverside/Robert's Golden Rainbow Black #5-Black Madiera/Madiera Island black.

Online Rudy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Welcome !!
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2019, 02:32:39 PM »
3 I still see some of these varieties in member's wish list which reflex to me that you're considering it why would you want a variety that hasn't been tested and the facts are unknown ?

A lot of people do not know who Larusso is.  I didn't until all the drama started.  Until you pointed out that I had illegal varieties on my wish list, I had no idea because reputable collectors have them.  Who is responsible for illegally importing them is unknown.   Established collectors just share amongst each other and sell to people on the side.  I had to go figure which ones were illegal for myself.  I figured if a reputable collector had it, then it was ok to own.  Newbies, like me, just read online what other people post and add varieties to their wish list because of postings online.  I am guilty of that myself.  It would be nice to know which varieties are illegal to own, but, of course, those who sell the cuttings are not going to tell you.
WL: heirloom varieties, Astoria Green, Louisiana Lightening, Black Bethlehem, LSU Red, LSU Thibodeaux, Super Red Hybrid, White Adriatic,Yellow Long Neck, BB 10, Cavaliere, Cendrosa, Ciliegia Dolce, Colonel Littman, Kesarsini, Strawberry Verte, Smith, Socorro Black, White Maderia #1

Online Rudy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • Welcome !!
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 02:56:04 PM »
And they won't tell us the location of these pre-existing orchards or how old the trees in question are!

Now, the1figman says to me he just made the video and has nothing to do with the venture, and the purpose was just to bring traffic to his website. So, I'll take his word on that one.
 
They won't even tell us where these secret fig trees reside. Is it normal for a nursery to hide its stock, or be secretive about how it got here? Who owns the trees they claim to be sourcing and where in America are they?


This is all very interesting.  Is it possible that this was planned years ago?  I mean, how do you suddenly have enough mature trees to sell cuttings to the general public unless you kept track of all the buyers and have a contract with them.   

the1figman has sold Thierry cuttings on figbid.  I did a completed sales search and he has sold Castillon, Sant Vicenze and the Can Planetes.  Have these been approved by the USDA?  He has a registered and inspected nursery, but wonder how Michael got these cuttings to sell.

WL: heirloom varieties, Astoria Green, Louisiana Lightening, Black Bethlehem, LSU Red, LSU Thibodeaux, Super Red Hybrid, White Adriatic,Yellow Long Neck, BB 10, Cavaliere, Cendrosa, Ciliegia Dolce, Colonel Littman, Kesarsini, Strawberry Verte, Smith, Socorro Black, White Maderia #1

Offline LouisianaMojo

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Karma: +129/-17
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 04:05:45 PM »
I'm relatively new to figs and internet forums, but I am 60 years old and have seen a lifetime of scams!

What they are doing is illegal, no doubt. I tried to bring this out in a post on ourfigs and Kelby the moderator cut off my post once nycfigs (the owner of figbid) got their approval of the venture in the comments. Kelby said in a PM that my post was fine and I did nothing wrong, but cut it off anyway. Very convenient. Here's the link:

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/654984-in-reference-to-this-post-introducing-figues-du-monde-usa

I had a private message session with both parties, Mike Kessler, the1figman and William Driscoll, aka egretsbill, and came to the personal conclusion that this business venture isn't legal.

First off, they claim Thierry has been selling thousands of cuttings to America over the years. But now he is going to stop selling them so these guys can be the exclusive sellers? Why on earth would he do that unless they are profiting more than before? 
The story simply makes no sense from any angle. In the video Thierry is asked why he is doing this and he says it's to increase his business, so that contradicts what these guys are claiming. How can his business increase if he stops selling them directly? Bill says they will be introducing new varieties in the future. Clearly a nod to importing new stock, not previously existing trees already here. And they won't tell us the location of these pre-existing orchards or how old the trees in question are!

Now, the1figman says to me he just made the video and has nothing to do with the venture, and the purpose was just to bring traffic to his website. So, I'll take his word on that one.
 
So is this between Bill Driscoll and Thierry only? Bill told me in a PM that ourfigs was in on it too, which would explain why the moderator cut off my post once the venture was approved by figbid, who is also benefiting from these sales.

Call it a black market, a gray market, or whatever you like. But are any of these people claiming these fig sales on their income taxes? I'd like to see some business licenses, a letter from the USDA saying this is legal, ANYTHING AT ALL! But, so far they can provide us with nothing but sales talk. They won't even tell us where these secret fig trees reside. Is it normal for a nursery to hide its stock, or be secretive about how it got here? Who owns the trees they claim to be sourcing and where in America are they?

In the end I'm not really sure who is even in on this venture. But it's obviously not legal. And having said that, after paying his extorted fees, will you be getting what you think you are by buying? I guess you might know in a few years when DNA testing becomes practical.

Thank you JD and Steve for this wonderful forum of giving, and bringing some fig scams to light. All I wanted was to buy some fig trees that I can't get from the local nurseries, not get involved in any black market scams. It shouldn't be this difficult.
Now I'm not even confident in using figbid anymore.


Well yes it's very uncommon for a license Nursery to hide the facts a reputable Nursery would have records and permit numbers.


If these varieties of figs were imported and held in quarantine and inspected. Without this information yes they would be illegal at least that's what the United States agriculture Department has on its law books. and now people are changing their story they're not involved in this venture.

I do believe these were people s e l l I n g cuttings last year if you want to check in our archives I believe one was banded here for selling one of those varieties for solicitation to sell here on our forum.

So I would say they would be an illegal another posting somewhere was stating that someone was trying to get a permit ? a little late now isn't it. Anyway I would copy those email conversations and stick them into a file in case someone comes a knocking. These are all the wrong answers there shouldn't be anything to hide.

Maybe Ross Can Shed a little light here I know he is around that little group.

Offline LouisianaMojo

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • Karma: +129/-17
Re: Thierrys fig cuttings
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 05:34:36 PM »
And they won't tell us the location of these pre-existing orchards or how old the trees in question are!

Now, the1figman says to me he just made the video and has nothing to do with the venture, and the purpose was just to bring traffic to his website. So, I'll take his word on that one.
 
They won't even tell us where these secret fig trees reside. Is it normal for a nursery to hide its stock, or be secretive about how it got here? Who owns the trees they claim to be sourcing and where in America are they?


This is all very interesting.  Is it possible that this was planned years ago?  I mean, how do you suddenly have enough mature trees to sell cuttings to the general public unless you kept track of all the buyers and have a contract with them.   

the1figman has sold Thierry cuttings on figbid.  I did a completed sales search and he has sold Castillon, Sant Vicenze and the Can Planetes.  Have these been approved by the USDA?  He has a registered and inspected nursery, but wonder how Michael got these cuttings to sell.


A lot of of the states require you do have a nursery license in order to sell plant material.

It has nothing to do with importing plant material quarantine an inspection and laboratory work for disease and viruses. These require separate permits.

Many states have a 3-day permit so individual can sell plant material like at state fairs a special AG events and farmer markets. These plants are not even inspected it's just a way to backtrack in case something happens like a virus.